Style as Self-Trust: Outgrowing the Rules Keeping You Stuck (with Ellie Steinbrink)

At some point, most women realize their style hasn’t kept up with who they’ve become. And the default response after this realization is usually to immediately go shopping. 

Ellie Steinbrink says that’s exactly where things go sideways.

In this episode, I’m joined by Ellie Steinbrink, stylist, personal branding expert, and host of The Visibility Shift podcast, for a conversation about why so many women are dressing by outdated, unspoken rules instead of self-trust. We unpack “corporate black,” the mom uniform, body-based style myths, and the quiet fear that keeps women playing it safe even when they’re ready for something bigger.

This is a conversation about the messy middle of change: the gap between knowing you’re evolving and letting yourself be seen as someone new. 

Style isn’t superficial: It’s a mirror. It reveals where you’re still negotiating for approval instead of acting from self-trust.

If you’re in the middle of a career shift, a leadership transition, or a deeper identity change and your outward presentation still reflects who you used to be, this episode will give language to what’s stuck and a way forward.

In This Episode

• Why change often shows up as discomfort before clarity
• How outdated style rules keep you anchored to old identities
• The role “corporate black” plays in signaling safety over self-trust
• Why shopping feels productive but often stalls real change
• The moment between internal change and external visibility
• How self-trust becomes the real dress code during transition
• What to do when your closet no longer matches who you’re becoming

Connect with Ellie:

• ellie@elliesteinbrink.com
• https://www.elliesteinbrink.com/ 
• Instagram: @style.decoded
• Podcast: The Visibility Shift
• LinkedIn

Book a free 30-minute Clarity Call here to cut through the noise and bring next steps into focus: https://www.megtrucano.com/book-a-call

START HERE: The Personal Change Pattern Assessment

Discover the unique psychological pattern keeping you stuck in the same status quo. In under 5 minutes, you’ll see which psychological patterns most often keep you stuck—overthinking, over-adapting, second-guessing—so you can choose your next move with accuracy.

***FED Impact Coaching***

Coaching for current or former employees in federal or adjacent fields whose roles, identity, or sense of stability have been disrupted by government restructuring.

***The REAL Change Kickstart (45-Day 1:1 Intensive)***

For women who know something needs to change and are ready to stop circling the decision.

***The REALignment Private Coaching Experience (3 or 6 Months)***

For women already mid-transition who want support integrating change in every aspect of their lives, not just initiating it.

Connect with Meg:

...

Transcript

Ellie Steinbrink: Changeology 

@0:21 - Meg Trucano

Welcome to the Changeology Podcast, Ellie.

@0:24 - Ellie Steinbrink

So awesome to have you here. Thanks for having me, Meg. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

@0:29 - Meg Trucano

Oh, me too. And I'm such a huge fan of the work that you do and of your podcast, The Visibility Shift.

But before we kind of get into the philosophy of style and change, I would really love to begin with your story of personal transformation because it's a really, really epic one.

@0:50 - Ellie Steinbrink

Yeah. Talk about a big change because when I set off to start on my career, I thought I wanted to go into marketing and branding and I did.

I spent 20 years. of my career in advertising agencies, helping. I was in the advisory role, so I was in the client service role, advising my clients on how to create branding and marketing strategies.

And I honestly, I did love it for many, many years. However, I got to a point, ironically, the point, the pinnacle in my career where I had reached the role I thought I most wanted, which was the director of client services.

And at that point in my life, instead of being totally elated that I had reached this level in my career, was everything I had feeling like it was everything I wanted, I had the biggest pit in my stomach because it was exactly everything I didn't want.

And I didn't know it until that moment. And there had been inklings, you know, where I was feeling some dissatisfaction.

But I really didn't know it till I got to the role and thought this is exactly nothing exact. There's nothing here that is calling me to do more to be more this.

It doesn't feel like anything like me, and that moment, if you've ever been in that moment where, or if you're maybe in this moment, I can just attest to the fact that it feels awful, because, you know, and at that point, I was almost to 20 years in my career, it was all the things you've been training for, and this, it's panic mode, because you think, what's next, if this isn't it, I don't know what is, and I've trained for 20 years to do this, and now I'm an expert.

And it feels incredibly scary, one, just to admit, this isn't it for me, and two, to answer the question, what's next, and luckily, I had access to a business coach in that company that I was working with, that I decided to take advantage of, because I was, I didn't know what to do, I hadn't, I didn't know what else to, what other resources to access at that time, so I started letting her into the fact that this wasn't it, I didn't know where to go, and I remember her,

So clearly asking me, Meg, well, what is it that you want to do? And I just sat there dumbfounded.

I did not know how to answer her question. I did not have an answer. And that was the next scariest thing is realizing not only did I not know what I want, you know, feeling awful, not feeling like was in the right position, but then not being able to answer her question.

I know now why, because I was incredibly burnt out at that time in my life. I had two little kids, you know, under five.

My husband is someone who travels every week. And so, you know, it was working 50 plus hours a week, plus having, you know, the mental load of knowing this isn't the right job for me.

I was completely beyond burnt out. And I had no time and space to even think about what would be right for me.

Well, fast forward, I ended up taking another role as part of my work with this coach and kind of dreaming up what would a dream day look like for you.

So I started to put some thoughts. In a place of like, what would feel better? If I can't say what it is exactly, but what would feel better?

And I knew I needed more space in my day. I ended up taking another role. happened to be in marketing that was technically part time.

It was a 30 hour role. And in that time, I had more space and time to think. I ended up being there for four years, but about a year before I got let go because of the pandemic, I got let go because of the pandemic.

About a year prior to that, I had a really big aha moment. And it was during a meditation session, actually.

I learned how to do transcendental meditation while working with this new company. The owner was really into transcendental meditation and wanted to gift that to her employees.

So me as a busybody, I'm like, okay, I can try to do this. I can learn how to do sit still and do meditation.

Well, this one particular session, I remember so clearly opening my eyes and thinking, I have to do something with this style.

Now, for listeners, Whereas you're thinking, where did this style thing come up? Well, it had been a part of me for my whole life.

know, ever since I was a little girl, I would change outfits multiple times a day. was just always a part.

It was the way in which I expressed myself creatively. And it was, you know, people would ask me throughout my career, oh, you know, I would love if you would come shop with me, or you should just come to my closet.

And I remember thinking, oh, that would be a dream. But there was never once a connection in my mind that this could be a reality for me.

was like, well, that's just something frivolous. You just, it's just something you do on the side. It's not an actual thing you do with your life.

So that's kind of the backstory to all this. So at this moment, I have the meditation session. It's like, you need to do something with this.

It was, I don't, I can't explain it. I've never had an experience like this before, but it made me listen.

And that very day I decided, okay, I am going to take action on this and I am going to start posting on.

Instagram. I'm going to start posting my thoughts. I'm going to just let all of this creativity that's in me fly.

And honestly, I had no game plan other than I'm just going to do this every day until I get bored with it or if it feels cumbersome or it feels like a pain in the butt.

I'm just going to do it until I run out of ideas or I'm bored with it. And long story short, I never stopped.

So a year later, I lose my job and it was like the universe saying, Ellie, you're ready. Because in that time that I, about a year, I had been posting all these people who knew me and were following me and were curious about what I was doing.

We're asking, Hey, can you work with me? What, what are your services?

@6:41 - Meg Trucano

And I'm like, I don't know, I guess I'm going make some services.

@6:44 - Ellie Steinbrink

So I started to just go with it. And here I am a year later, the universe is like, you're ready.

And I, it's funny because I, Meg, I would have never, I don't think I would have ever made the, or it would have taken me a lot longer to to make that jump on my own head.

@7:04 - Meg Trucano

So two things that really pop out to me from your story is the first, which is your coach saying, well, what do you want to do instead?

And you're like, I don't know, but it's not this. That is so, so, so common in my clients and in people that I've talked with on this podcast as well as like you assume that gratification and satisfaction and fulfillment lie.

At a point beyond, you know, just beyond your current, you know, like it's at the director level, it's at the vice president level, it's, it's at a point down the future.

Right. And once you get there and you're like, well, this was supposed to be the end of the line.

This was supposed to be the fulfilling bit. And it's not, then you're like, oh gosh. But then the second thing that really struck me is that in that, not knowing you went back to childhood.

childhood, you went back to things that were. So authentic to you as a person, because kids, as a mom of very young children right now, they're just who are who they are, right?

Like they haven't really had time to like, get all those yucky stories and like, have it shape who they are.

They're just who they are. And you loved style. And I love that the universe kind of nudged you in the direction of reclaiming that for yourself, which is just, I love that.

@8:27 - Ellie Steinbrink

Yeah. And I think at the moment when I realized I was in the wrong role, I remember style coming up as part of the conversation.

I didn't know what to do with it.

@8:37 - Meg Trucano

I didn't know how to make it tangible. And I think I also wasn't ready.

@8:42 - Ellie Steinbrink

You know, the next role I took, I ended up it was I was working with a small business who the woman was a speaker.

She's an author. She's a podcaster. She, you know, is is creating content for herself as a personal brand. I didn't know it.

But those four years ended up being an incredible training. And me to learn how to run a business, how to promote yourself, how to be a speaker, how to be a podcaster.

I didn't know I needed to know those things, but that was a courage building time. And it was a time for me to have more space and time to think and just come back to myself because in my previous life, there was not even a nanosecond of time to put into what I wanted to do.

I just knew that I was burnt out and tired and I just wanted to go rest. That was all I could think.

And what I've learned now and carried into my role and, you know, the structure that I've created my business in, I've continued to allow for space and time so that I don't go back into that place that I know is a danger zone for me.

Because honestly, I believe that even if I'm here doing the thing I love most that I could just as easily burn out if I'm not careful.

And so that's something I've, I've really been protective. I'll see you next time.

@10:08 - Meg Trucano

Yes, and I think the point about creating space, and I love that you sort of found yourself in a role that permitted you to have that kind of space, but as a, you know, you are a creative person, I'm a creative person.

I think anybody in this, in the role of entrepreneur or business owner has to be somewhat creative, and in order to really tap into your creativity in an authentic way, which we'll talk about in a little bit, you have to have that space, and you have to have that time to sort of sit with things, right, and to let them kind of flow naturally.

And so, yeah, I'm glad that the universe kind of gave you some training wheels and got you, because you are relatively new to the podcasting game, and your podcast is a delight.

you So whatever you learned in your previous position has served you well, I think. So definitely audience members, check out her podcast.

@11:10 - Ellie Steinbrink

Thank you.

@11:11 - Meg Trucano

Yeah. And so as we were prepping for this episode, right, we sort of realized that although our niches are pretty distinct, right, like I'm a life coach and I do major life transformations, and you are a stylist and personal branding expert, right?

There's so much overlap because we're so much, so much because what we're really working with women on is the same thing, which is transformation.

@11:41 - Ellie Steinbrink

Yes.

@11:42 - Meg Trucano

And so I'd love to hear your thoughts on transformation and specifically like how does transformation actually occur in yourself and in your clients?

@11:54 - Ellie Steinbrink

Yeah. You know what? I, this is such a great question, Meg, because women. They to me at a time when they feel something's shifting, and I work with a lot of business owners, work with a lot of entrepreneurs, and so the shift can be different depending on what they're experiencing.

Maybe it's that they're raising to a new level in their business, or maybe they just left corporate, and now they're kind of trying to unravel themselves from a corporate version of themselves into now being the identity of a business owner.

But there's a feeling of, I need to change, and I need to come back into myself, and the first thing that women think to do when they feel like, okay, they've identified that maybe my style has not caught up with the transformation that's happening with me internally, so they can start to recognize that's happening.

The first thing that you think to do is to go shopping, and the first thing I say is, do not go shopping, and here's why, here's why.

Shopping is where a lot of confusion starts. it's like. And it can get very chaotic and disorienting. And what I mean by that is walking into a retail environment or even being in an online space, you've got, you know, and I was a marketer.

So I know all of the tricks in the book. The, oh, there's 50 people looking at this top, you better buy it now.

Or you're seeing style influencers on Instagram telling you these are the coolest, newest things to be wearing if you want to be on trend or even just relevant in this world in this day and age.

@13:32 - Meg Trucano

You've got then stylists in the stores who I think are very talented and they are very helpful. But they don't really, all they're really commenting on is does that actually look good on your body or maybe does the color look good on your skin?

They don't know where you're going.

@13:46 - Ellie Steinbrink

So we're getting all of these confusing messages. And so I understand how when women come to me and they say, I'm, you know, I'm overwhelmed.

And when I look in my closet, it's full of these disjointed pieces that I don't know what to Some have tags on, some don't fit me, some I really do love, but I don't know what to do with.

I can see why. Because when we feel that transformation, we want to go take action. And shopping feels like a productive act.

It does. And we're like, well, if we just kind of keep shopping, eventually we'll find clarity. Eventually we'll find ourselves or we'll find something that sticks or feels like me.

But it's a misstep. So where I'm asking women to start is asking, who is the woman I'm becoming? And that question is very simple, but it is not always easy to answer because it requires self-trust.

It requires honesty. And it requires some undoing of things that we've always believed about our bodies or our style.

And so it's funny. I'll, I'll share that when I first started this business five years ago, I didn't know this.

I'm just going to be very vulnerable and say, I didn't know that there was this piece that. So when I would meet with my clients, we would spend some time talking about, you know, what vision do you have for yourself?

You know, and I would ask their style challenges, and I would do a whole intake form and really get a sense of who they were.

But then I would start shopping and styling. And what would happen, Meg, is when they would start to put those clothes on, there was a moment of complete elation and complete terror.

And this is why. Complete elation, because it's like, Oh, my gosh, you know, this vision I had of myself, you just brought to life.

And now I'm looking at her. And this is so thrilling. And then the moment of terror is, I need to know now go out and start walking around and being seen like this.

And that feels vulnerable, because often these transformations that we have in our head of who we want to become.

They might be vastly different from who we are today. And it might be, hey, I'm finally ready to claim this version of myself.

So it was in that. That that I realized there's something happening between the vision I have of myself and the doing the actual, I'm going to go be this person.

And so I realized there was some mindset work that needed to happen. So now when I start working with my clients, we not only talk about the vision, but then we're also going through a considerable amount of mindset work, which is where are the rules or beliefs?

I'm still hanging on to that are not allowing me to fully step into this new version that I want to be.

And this can be everything from women coming from corporate and believing that black is king and black is the most credible, or wearing a blazer is going to give you ultimate trust when you're meeting with your clients, you know, to allowing themselves to say, hey, I don't have to keep following these rules.

But can it can also be, you know, things we heard about our style or our bodies on the playground as we were kids, that we're still not.

Not allowing ourselves to go buy this or that because of this one comment we heard when we were teenagers.

It's crazy, but there is an undoing that has to happen before you can rebuild.

@17:11 - Meg Trucano

I completely agree. And I think I have a similar process and I too, in my early years of coaching, I missed it.

I missed that critical, almost messy middle, right? Of really examining who you are first. And who you want to be and uncovering what lies beneath all that crap that lies on top of, um, that's pressuring you.

And I, and you and I have come to the realization that this is the same mechanism, whether it's style or whether it's life transformation, it's the same thing.

And, you know, I like to call those little beliefs that are telling you that are like guiding your behavior in the background, the insidious shoulds because they are.

These these unspoken rules that we live by, right? They are running in the background. They're very rarely explicit. And I'd be interested to see if it's the same in the style world too, but they are powerful enough to shape our behavior, especially if we don't take a good look at them and examine them, right?

And so this could be anything from feeling like, you know, in my world, like a good mom should cook nourishing, healthy, home-cooked meals every night to something that maybe you might hear, which is, you know, you should never wear white after Labor Day or something, you know.

And when you take a look at these insidious sheds, often they're absurd. Like, who made that up? Like, why are we bending ourselves and contorting ourselves to try to fit into this narrative?

And I think equally this narrative of who we used to be and, and who we, you know, are because of

How we're playing out these shoulds. They're both working at the same time. But in your work as a stylist and with clients, what are the biggest ways that shoulds kind of show up?

And like, which of them do they tend to struggle with the most? And I have a hypothesis, but I'm curious to hear what you think.

@19:22 - Ellie Steinbrink

Well, will say that when I do this, when we get to this part of the process where we're naming the rules, you know, so you call it insidious shoulds.

That's a great name for it. Because often I'll say is like, what are the shoulds that are coming up when you say like, oh, I should wear this because I'm a 50 year old woman, or I should wear this because now I'm a mom, or I should wear this because when I go to the school pickup line, I see how this is all the other people are dressing there.

And I don't want to stand out. So first of all, I'll say that when we start this process, it can be shocking for women to realize that this isn't just

One or two or three rules, this is 20 or more rules that we've been clinging on to. And where these come from is things maybe we've been taught from our own families.

This can be culturally, depending on where you grew up, and this is even cultures within the United States, but then of course, outside of the United States, these can be our professional codes that whatever industry we've been spending our time in, or maybe the social circles we've been running in.

So it's a bit overwhelming, I think, for them to realize that, wow, there are so many ways in which, and you said it, some are very easy to identify, and they're a little bit more at the surface.

And, you know, like, I'm not wearing white after Labor Day because of the silly rule, but then the deeper ones are sometimes they don't even realize they've been following these rules.

And the example I gave before of women coming from corporate. Like, it is just, I don't know what it is.

I mean, I do. This wearing black is a thing that almost every corporate woman has come to me and said, well, you know, a great example is I had a woman who had just, who had left corporate and was running her own business.

And she happened to have a really fun girly, but like in a powerful way style. But she was like, I love color.

I love florals. I love like Coco Chanel sort of like looking things like tweeds and the girly stuff. But she's like, I want it in this, you know, kind of like powerful way.

And she would say, I would start to play around when I would go to client meetings. And here I'm meeting with, you know, companies who are big companies, and I want them to take me seriously.

And she said, what I would do is I would, you know, find this really fun top or maybe a fun skirt, but then I would always have to wear it with something black, like to ground it because I wanted to make sure that they would take me seriously because I'm managing a lot of their money.

I, you know, I want them to trust. And it's like, she's like, every time I would do it, I would feel I knew it was like a little bit pretending, but I was so scared of letting them truly see the real me.

Because what if, what if then I have no business, I started this business, I left corporate, and I'm betting on this working.

And we don't even realize how something as simple as our wardrobe is holding us back in these scenarios. And so in her example, what I wanted to show her is, hey, guess what, you can be you, you can be all your girly, powerful self.

And you can be taken seriously, and you can be credible. And you can be professional, because it's like these two worlds, they didn't even know they don't coexist, but they actually do.

And now what I know about, you know, authenticity is huge buzz buzzword, you know, especially in the entrepreneurial space while in leadership anywhere.

But what I now know, I found research by this woman. And she shared that entrepreneurs and business owners who lean into authenticity in their personal brand, it actually moves the needle of your business.

And that turns into greater trust with your existing clients. That means shorter lead times from, you know, them learning about you to making a purchase, which, you know, if we're dealing with bigger ticket items here that you know right now, anybody listening, how big of a deal it is for someone to decide to trust.

@23:30 - Meg Trucano

Trust you.

@23:31 - Ellie Steinbrink

Um, it's incredible, you know, so this, this piece of authenticity is the thing we're so scared of, but it's actually the thing that is magical.

It's actually the thing that people want more from of you. So I don't know if I answered your question directly, but I just wanted to illuminate how powerful some of these beliefs are that then lead you to self-sabotage.

when it comes to actually deciding what to wear or what you decide to purchase once.

@24:01 - Meg Trucano

Yeah. Okay. So I, I can't, first of I had no idea that that was such a big deal that the corporate black thing.

That's so interesting because my corporate experience was nothing like that. But at the same time, like it was, it was uniform, but in a different way.

Right. Um, so I had, I, my hypothesis just to kind of close the loop on that was that maybe people have a lot of shoulds around body, like their bodies, like, Oh, if you carry your weight around your midsection, you don't wear a belt or, you know, like little things like that, that I'm sure we've kind of accumulated over time.

Or I remember hearing one thing when I was a kid and I never understood it, but that redheads should never wear pink or never wear green.

And I just like stupid things like that. Right. Like why, why?

@24:57 - Ellie Steinbrink

Um, and I will just affirm that when we're. Going through this, all these shoulds, there are tons of body things that come up too, and it's everything from how revealing or not you should be, to my arms are not acceptable, so they always need to be covered, to yes, like I have, carry maybe my weight in my midsection, so why would I want to highlight it?

And I think then as women go through different shifts in their weight, their tendency is just to kind of go bigger and more oversized and hide themselves.

And when I teach them how to actually dress your particular body type, they are blown away, because it's, it's totally opposite of what you would think you think like hiding is actually or wearing black is going to make you look slimmer, you know, but it actually just goes the opposite of what you're trying to do.

So, yeah, and I hear a lot of people, you know, those body, those body things start very early on, which is they hold then stronger too.

@25:58 - Meg Trucano

Mm-hm.

@25:59 - Ellie Steinbrink

So, whatever that... The belief is there's always a fear associated with it, and then it leads to self-sabotage at some point.

@26:07 - Meg Trucano

So how do you help your clients? So you've identified them. You've helped them identify what they are. How do you help them let go of those stories and to kind of embrace their authentic, you know, use the word authentic, self-expression through their style?

@26:23 - Ellie Steinbrink

How do you do that? Yeah. The first step is awareness. So we name it. And when we go through the exercise, like I said, we might come out with 20.

But I ask them to tell me, what is the one that feels like it has the strongest hold on you right now that is holding you back the most from where you want to go?

And so we name that, and then we rewrite a mantra that they can then repeat to themselves. And I want to be totally honest in the fact that I realize these are not going to be cured in a day.

These mindset shifts, I mean, they might have taken 20 or 30 or 40 years to be ingrained in you.

So you can't expect that in a day it's going to be totally transformed, but often I find that just the awareness itself is such a huge step for them to, the next time then they, let's say they do want to lean into a bolder color or they want to do something that they've never tried before, for them to just give themselves permission is huge.

To say, I realized that I'm not doing this because I've told myself this lie for so many years, I'm willing to then take that step and try this out.

And I think then when I'm there as their coach as well to say, just give it a try and see how it feels.

And then they start getting little proof of, you know, little evidence that, hey, I went out and tried this, you know, we found this outfit together and asked them how do they feel and then they're willing to go.

Step out into the world and try it out. And guess what? Nothing falls apart. In fact, usually the opposite happens and they're getting affirmations.

Not that we should use affirmations to confirm whether, you know, what we're doing is right, but it doesn't hurt, you know, because the opposite in their head is that life is all the worst fears that I have are going to come true.

And when they don't, that just gives them more and more courage to keep going down that path. And I'll often find that the more I work with a client, the braver they will get.

And, you know, I'll hear him say things like, I remember you're always in my head, like that mantra we said, like, remember.

You know, so it's, it's retraining of the brain and it takes time, but it also includes betting on yourself.

And that's part of this process is trusting yourself, which does take time, but it requires action too.

@28:45 - Meg Trucano

Yeah. Oh my gosh. So many things in there that I, I want to, to focus on. So the first is kind of this authenticity and you, you did a great job of outlining like why it's important, not only in your, of with your rest.

Thank I don't Thank you. Um, especially for, you know, entrepreneurs, but in your style and also just kind of how you show up as yourself in life.

Right. So as a, as a style coach, what does it mean to be authentic?

@29:17 - Ellie Steinbrink

Ah, to me, it means, it means just being honest about what makes you, you. As I think by the time we've gotten to this point in our lives, midway through life, we've put on a lot of shields that feel protective and it feels like it's the pathway to success.

You know, even thinking of my, I'll just use myself as an example. When I first started styling and I looked around at the industry of other stylists, I thought, Oh man, you know, like I have, now I need to step it up and I need to look like what I think a stylist should look like.

And I need to be buying the brands that I. I a stylist would be buying and this, that, and the other.

And I think it takes a lot of courage to just keep coming back to when I put an outfit on or when I try something on, even in the store, am I in a performative role where I think, again, the shoulds are so important because anytime you find yourself saying, well, I should wear this because I know this is how other people are going to be dressing at the event I'm going to.

There's a dress code and I probably should, or I should wear this because that's what a professional does, or I should wear this because someone gave this to me and it's in my closet and that would be the respectful thing to do.

I think what we're missing is we're missing that tuning back into how does this make me feel. And so even when, you know, we've gone through this, I've gone through the work, the foundational work with a client, and we've gotten to the point where we're shopping and they're trying these things on.

Now, you know, I've picked these things out for them and hopefully they're on. They're par for what they've said they wanted for their style, but the very first thing I ask them when they've tried something on is I'll say, how does that feel?

How do you feel? And I know they want to know my expert advice about like, how's the fit and what do you think?

And, you know, all the things. And I'm happy to give that to them, but I always ask first, how does this feel?

Because I want to train them to start feeling in their clothes again. And often when we'll say, well, I don't even know where to start.

And I'll say, well, tomorrow, when you go into your closet, and you put an outfit on, how does it actually make you feel and just be real?

Really try to get honest? Does it make me feel scratchy?

@31:40 - Meg Trucano

And like, when I sit down, I can't breathe?

@31:42 - Ellie Steinbrink

Or does it feel like it's not quite the honest version of myself? If we can just allow ourselves to feel that's a really great place to start.

And I often think the way in which our fashion world is today, it's very fast. It's You know, when I was a kid, I would get a catalog for the spring clothesline, and I would get a catalog for the fall clothesline.

And that was it. And I really didn't think about, you know, buying things outside of those seasons. But now it's, I'm getting emails weekly.

Oh, there's another new drop of clothes. And there's so much pressure. And I think then as a result, we get this really transactional relationship going on with our clothes.

Like I can acquire them very easily, but then I can, you know, sometimes they're so cheap that it's like, ah, I wear it once and I just throw it away.

And like, there's really no feeling involved. So let's invite this relationship back with our clothes. And I love it.

Yeah. And I really do think we've lost that connection. And so, and just because life is so fast paced, and sometimes in the mornings when you're getting dressed, it's, it's just a crazy town, you know, kids around your ankles or whatever.

But if we can allow ourselves to just get to the point of honesty, So it really, it really does make a difference.

I can share a story if you want something a little bit more tangible about, you know, something that happened with me where I had to really tune in to what was more authentic.

@33:13 - Meg Trucano

I'd love to hear it.

@33:14 - Ellie Steinbrink

Okay. So I was preparing for a keynote and this was early on when I started and I thought it would be fun to just involve my Instagram followers in the process.

So I had picked out these five outfits from, you know, they're all from my closet. And in theory, you know, I do love all the clothes in my closet.

I've gotten to that point where I'm like, I love everything in there. It feels like me. However, I think I had five outfits that I showed on Instagram and I was asking, you know, vote on your favorite.

And the votes started coming in and this one particular outfit got voted on pretty clearly. And I remember thinking, ah, that wasn't really the one I wanted to wear.

@33:57 - Meg Trucano

Oh, wow.

@33:58 - Ellie Steinbrink

And yes, it is from my closet. But, and I did love it, but I didn't love it as much as this other one.

And I didn't think it would give me as much energy as this other one, I was thinking of would give me on stage.

And so here, this was day, like almost a week before my, my keynote, and I was planning to wear the outfit that got chosen, because here I'm thinking, well, if everybody says I look good in it, then that's probably what I should wear, you know, and I was allowing myself to get caught up in And that approval and that praise.

And it got to be the morning of my keynote, and I went in my closet. And I thought I can't do it.

That is the other one is the one that I want to wear. And I'm so glad I made I just allowed myself to say, you know what, I get that everyone else, you know, 100% voted that this was the outfit.

But my vote matters in this too. And that's the one I chose. And I felt awesome on stage. And if you're if you I

If spoken or even just gotten on a zoom camera or presented, you want to be in your energy. You want to be in that right energy.

And if you've ever chosen an outfit because you thought you should, and you felt where that energy was off, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

It's like there's enough to worry about with what you're saying and your slides and everything else. At least your energy should be in the right place.

@35:22 - Meg Trucano

I love that story for so many reasons. Firstly, that you had the courage to, to, to listen to yourself and to trust yourself and your own energetic barometer, as opposed to someone, you know, they may be wonderful humans out there voting on your, your Instagram outfits, right.

But that, that is another really key area of change and overlap. I think between our two niches is that there's this element of self-trust that simply cannot be faked.

And it brings about an energy, right? There is an energetic difference irrespective of what they're wearing. But I think when they are wearing something they feel powerful in, you know, you can tell when a woman walks in and she trusts herself and she's got this like self-possessed energy about her, right?

Versus someone who may look amazing, but just like comes in and they kind of fall flat a little bit, right?

There is that elemental self-trust that I think we both work with clients to try to get them back to that place of power.

And this brings me to my next kind of question for you. So let's talk a little bit about your clients and feeling like they deserve to work with you or deserve to invest in themselves in this way.

So a big change. Another that I think both of us encounter in our niches is that sometimes women consider investing in themselves to be kind of an indulgence or a luxury or something that they have to earn first or that, you know, is a, okay, when I get to that level, then.

So what would you say to a woman who is just like desperately wants to bring her style into alignment with the woman she's becoming, but she feels like she either can't invest in herself right now or doesn't deserve it?

@37:31 - Ellie Steinbrink

What would you say to that woman? I'm going to give an example of a client who said it better than probably I can say it because she was having this very struggle and she shared this with me well after we were done working together.

And she said, it's ironic because I was holding back on investing in myself in so many ways, not even just in style, but she was a business owner and she recognized that she was holding herself back from investing in many different things in her own person.

And she said, had this moment where I realized that I was encouraging my clients to do this for themselves, but I realized I wasn't doing it for myself.

And it kind of gives me goosebumps still because I think if you're a business owner, even if you're not, I think we can see ourselves how if we were talking to a friend and saying, this is something that would be so worthwhile your time, there are a million other excuses that we could come up with why this would not be a good idea, but I think we discount the transformations that can happen.

And I know in my world, the thing I'm always saying is it's not really about the style, it is, and through what I've shared today, hopefully it's illuminated this fact, but it's actually not the clothes that are the biggest transformation, it's the self-trust, it's the coming back to.

It's the claiming who you are.

@39:03 - Meg Trucano

That is the gold.

@39:05 - Ellie Steinbrink

And I think that is another thing that this client realized was, I finally just did allow, you know, she always felt like she had a little bit of a quirkier style and she wasn't sure if it was polished or professional enough.

And she doubted herself a little bit. And I gave her that courage and voice to say, this is who I am.

And I'm ready to end, you know, her business just like catapulted after. That's so I think sometimes we don't realize, you know, we don't realize that changing this over here will impact all these other aspects of her life.

We just think, oh, well, it's just going to give me a new wardrobe in my case, you know, in your case, it's different.

But, oh, it's just that, but it's never just that. Mm hmm.

@39:51 - Meg Trucano

I cannot agree more emphatically with you. And a little known fact, I started off as a money coach and people.

People would come to me and we would work through their money stuff.

@40:04 - Ellie Steinbrink

Same sort of thing.

@40:04 - Meg Trucano

was like, it's not about the money. It's about the change that you go through. It's about the transformation. It's about all that stuff that's underneath.

It's just an outward manifestation of the alignment or the misalignment. And I'm sure the style is the same way.

@40:21 - Ellie Steinbrink

Are you aligned or you misaligned?

@40:23 - Meg Trucano

Is it giving you another tool to say, hey, world, here I am. This is me. This is who I am.

And I trust myself and let's go. And so I think that that can take many faces. But I think personally, one of the ones that I think is the most fun is style because it marries that creative aspect with real kind of insight into how you are as a human and how you want to show up and what kind of, you know, call it a personal brand you want to have, right?

I I think… Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Sometimes we reserve, like we think about that as being reserved only for entrepreneurs, but I think that it's relevant to any woman's life is how your outward face to the world, like who you are and how you want to be regarded.

So I love all of this.

@41:19 - Ellie Steinbrink

And I'll say, I think the other thing that that's rooted in for me is on the face of it, you might think in regards to style, you know, making a decision about what to wear every day seems like such an insignificant decision, really.

I mean, of the 35,000 decisions we make in a day, surely that one is not at the top when we consider making decisions for our health, for our family, for the people we love, for our work or, you know, I get it.

It feels like it's at the bottom of the totem pole, but what I know and what brain science has shown is that what you wear actually changes your daily results.

And I've seen it time and time again, that this one little decision that we make. In our closets, good or bad, you know, if it's an outfit that makes us feel horrible or makes us feel guilty or makes us feel less than or just, you know, blah, that is then shifts all these decisions you make in a day and ultimately your results.

Now flip it to the other way where you've got a really feeling really good, whether it's something that feels good on your skin or a color or just you're feeling confident.

Now think about the decisions you're making in a day and the results then at the end of that day.

And I know for me, when I do this exercise with my clients, it's night and day. It's, you know, on the days when it's not so great start in your closet, it's missed opportunities, wanting to turn the Zoom camera off.

Not making the ask, not saying what you wanted to say, falling off your health routine, and then the days where you've got a different vibe going in your closet and it's a good one.

And now I'm reaching out to friends. I'm making connections. I'm going after that really hard thing on my to-do list because I've got the energy and the confidence to do it.

It's a totally different day. There's two totally different days. And when I'm thinking about where I'm wanting to go in my life, you know, as a business owner or even just personally, and you think about, listener, you know, where you're going and what your goals are, which of those two days is going to help you get there faster?

And I know for me, it's always, and that's why when I go into my closet every morning, I'm intentional about whether anyone sees me or not, you know, and I work from home.

@43:38 - Meg Trucano

And so there are days that no one sees me, not even on a Zoom call.

@43:42 - Ellie Steinbrink

I do that for myself because it changes the momentum for me.

@43:46 - Meg Trucano

I love that exercise or way of thinking about it. And I personally, I think when you first shared that with me, I related to you a story that had literally just happened to me, I think.

Either the previous day or that day, where I had, you know, walked into my closet, I picked something up off the floor, it wasn't dirty enough to be washed, but I also hadn't put the effort, you know, to put it away.

And, you know, I was just gonna go do drop off in this clothing or whatever. And I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror as I left.

And I thought, Oh, my God, you look like just . Just awful. And I was such a for the rest of the day.

I was nasty to myself. I was like a stonewall-y to my husband. My kids got the short end of the stick.

was good for nobody. Yeah. And after we had that conversation, I tried, I tried it. I was like, you know, this is an experiment.

I'm just gonna try and we'll see how it goes. And I put on something that was kind of unseasonable.

Like it was not quite fall yet when we were talking. And I put it on and I just felt so much better.

And I had the best day, exactly as you described. And like, it's the kind of thing that you have to kind of experience to believe almost.

Just hearing you say that is like, oh, yeah, okay, I can see how that works.

@45:25 - Ellie Steinbrink

But when you actually experience it for yourself, you're like, yes, okay. Yeah. And I mean, I remember when I was a little girl, I always say that I loved dressing up.

And so I knew that something happened in me when I put on this like twirly dress as a little girl.

I knew that my energy had just completely shifted, but it wasn't until I started doing this work, there's actually brain science happening.

So what happens is when you have a feeling, your brain activates and sends chemicals throughout your body. So if you're having a good feeling, good chemicals flood your body, bad feelings, bad chemicals flood your body.

And in this process.

@47:01 - Meg Trucano

What gets me that energy, that feeling of power that is not only good for me and for the people around me, but it's good for my clients.

If I'm showing up as a coach in a powerful, leading kind of way, as opposed to a frumpy, like, I don't give a about what I look like, it gives the impression to my client that I'm not.

That I'm not taking it seriously almost like, like their life is not worth me getting dressed for kind of thing.

And I would never want a client to feel that way. But at the same time, it starts with me, right?

Like it has to start with me. I could, you know, I could be wearing the same thing, but if I feel amazing in it, that has a different impact than if I feel frumpy in it.

It could be the same article in clothing. So I think- Yeah. I think, and I think your clients deserve the best of you.

@48:04 - Ellie Steinbrink

For sure. And, you know, and I think that's how I often will, yeah, I, exactly. And my work deserves the best of me.

And that's, I remember going through when I first started my business, we were smack dab in the middle of the pandemic, when, you know, nobody was putting any effort into their work from home look.

And I learned pretty quickly, this isn't working for me. You know, I wanted to, because I remember showing up on zoom calls where I would be dressed up, I would dressed up, you know, like wearing a pair of jeans or something with a button on it, or just even doing my hair and makeup.

And people would say comments like, what are you trying to do here? You know, you're trying to show us up like, we're all in our messy buns, and we just were in our pajamas.

And I said, I'm doing this, I'm doing this for me, because I'm, it's the only way that I can remind myself.

What I'm doing here. And. When I roll out in my pajamas and messy hair and no makeup, I just want to do nothing.

It was almost like a commitment to myself, but I love that you shared that.

@49:14 - Meg Trucano

think there is a powerful, it's mindset shift, right?

@49:16 - Ellie Steinbrink

It's a mindset shift reminding you who you are and who you want to be, and you never know that your act of authenticity might then inspire and trigger that in someone else.

And I mean, ultimately, that would be the best case scenario for me, you know, is a bunch of women who are willing to just put their light out there, let it shine.

That would be the dream come true. And so we're slowly making it happen.

@49:45 - Meg Trucano

It's just taking a little while. Yeah, but I think this is such a worthy conversation because, you know, as women, there's just a lot of around, you know, how we look and what we should look like and how we should.

Show up in the world. And I think, you know, I think you're not making the case that you need to, you know, have designer stuff on all the time in order to that.

I've never heard you once say that in any of your things that you've posted or said on the on the podcast.

What you're saying is, what do you love? What makes you feel incredible in it? That is what the goal is.

That is what you're you're mining trying to find, even if it goes against the grain.

@50:37 - Ellie Steinbrink

Now, I'm not talking about showing up an event where your dress level is like completely ignorant of what the dress level is.

That's not what I'm talking about. But I am saying that, you know, if the mom code for what you're supposed to wear at, you know, a soccer game doesn't fit your M.O., it doesn't have to be what you wear.

It doesn't have to feel like you're selling out every time. You go, you know, even in that kind of a setting, uh, it's okay to be yourself.

It's okay to go against the grain or color outside the lines. That's what my mom always told me is color outside the lines.

@51:12 - Meg Trucano

And that has become a mantra for me. I love that. And I love how permission giving that is for women everywhere as well.

Just color outside the lines. I love it. Okay. So we've talked about a lot today in this podcast. It's been such a wonderful conversation.

And I'm personally very excited to put into practice some of the things you've talked about today, but before we end our conversation, I usually end with a sort of rapid fire section.

And so I want you to just give me your off the cuff answer really quick.

@51:47 - Ellie Steinbrink

Okay.

@51:47 - Meg Trucano

I'm a little nervous.

@51:48 - Ellie Steinbrink

Oh, it's nothing huge.

@51:50 - Meg Trucano

I promise. Okay. So what is your favorite quick style hack?

@51:57 - Ellie Steinbrink

Hmm. you. Thank One of the things I see women struggle the most with is putting their clothes into categories.

So like a blazer is a workpiece, a silky dress is for going out, a pair of jeans is for the weekend.

Don't put rules around those clothes. They can be used in any of those settings. If you can just allow yourself to take them out of the categories.

For example, I love wearing a blazer with a pair of jeans and a sneakers on the weekend. I will also wear a blazer over a really fancy dress for a night out.

And I'll also, you know, take a pair of jeans and make them really look really polished and beautiful for like I've worn jeans for a keynote.

So I think my style hack is to take the category out of your clothes what you think you should wear it for there can be so much way so many more ways to use it if you allow yourself to expand the other one I have to actually I need to share it is when you buy a clip when you you buy an item, you have to think of at least three ways in which you can wear it of things you already have in your closet so So

Can I take this home and make it into three outfits right away? If I can't, don't buy it.

@53:07 - Meg Trucano

Ooh, that's really good. I love that. There's just like a little bit of financial advice in there too. Girl, after my own heart.

@53:13 - Ellie Steinbrink

I love it.

@53:14 - Meg Trucano

What's your personal favorite thing to wear?

@53:19 - Ellie Steinbrink

Oh, hands down belts. I don't know what it is about belts, but you will see it in a lot of my outfits.

I think belts, not only do they work for my particular body type, they just, you know, cinch the waist in, but my mom tells me stories of, I wore belts like with my dress, you know, my gown pajamas when I was like five years old.

So I have a thing with belts, but, um, belt is definitely in, I think that it's an accessory, but it just transforms the look of an outfit so well.

And ironically, belts is something my clients hands down is the item that many of them either don't own or they wish they had, but they don't know what to do with.

@53:56 - Meg Trucano

So I'm a big advocate for belts. I'm going to have to talk with you. Belted blade.

@54:01 - Ellie Steinbrink

Lasers, belts on your dresses, belts on your pants and jeans, like all of it.

@54:06 - Meg Trucano

I love it. Okay. So what is one book that has changed? How do you think?

@54:17 - Ellie Steinbrink

Oh, there are so many. Let me think of, I would say, um, James Clear. Why am I not thinking of the exact James Clear?

His Habits book.

@54:33 - Meg Trucano

can't think of the title of it.

@54:34 - Ellie Steinbrink

Yep. Yes. That really transformed how I thought about, you know, taking action or, you know, it was a totally new way for me to think about.

And actually this whole, this whole talk of style actually really relates to a lot of the things he talks about in his book.

But this idea that, um, when you think about your habits, you think about them building towards who he has you think about.

Who do I see as myself as an identity? What are the habits that then support that identity? If I'm someone who identifies as a healthy person, what are the habits that a healthy person, as opposed to just setting a goal and say, dang it, I'm going to eat less calories.

going eat more protein. That's my life right now. Eat more protein. Instead of those goals, which can fail you, flipping it and tying it to your identity.

So I often will think about that with style. How do you see yourself? And then does your daily habits or does your closet then support that version you're wishing to be?

When you can embody that, it makes it so much easier to embrace those habits that you want for yourself.

@55:48 - Meg Trucano

Oh, I love that. That's my top five. One of my top five too is James Clear's Atomic Habits and it, the identity shift in particular, the, you know, so much of our behavior comes from.

Identity, right, is I'm the kind of person who does this, or I'm an anxious person, so this. And I just love that reclamation of your identity and taking it back.

@56:13 - Ellie Steinbrink

I love it.

@56:14 - Meg Trucano

Yeah. Okay, so what's one thing that you want our audience to take away from today's conversation?

@56:23 - Ellie Steinbrink

Hmm. I want them to take away that maybe the way in which they've developed their style to date has been driven from external forces, whether that's compliments of, oh, you look so good in that color, or because that's the way you see people dressing around you so you feel like it's what you should do.

I want you to just recognize that, and this is not just the listener, it's me, it's you, it's every one of us have been trained how to develop our style from the external end because ultimately we do want

We want affirmation. We do want the praise. We do want to know that we fit in. And I want you to start to challenge yourself to look at yourself from the inside out.

So it starts with, who is this person that I am? Or who is the brand that I've developed for myself?

And then how can we reverse engineer it? And then the style becomes the visual part of that person you are.

@57:26 - Meg Trucano

I love that. Okay. What is one piece of advice you'd have for someone who wants to make a big change?

@57:37 - Ellie Steinbrink

Yeah. It starts with, I'm going to ask to start getting clear on the question, who is the woman I'm becoming?

And get curious about that outside of the shoulds. And then I'm going to ask you when you walk into your closet today, tomorrow, next week, I'm going to ask you to just start noticing.

How you feel in your closet, how you feel in your those clothes. Those seem like very simple steps, but that is really where you can allow yourself to be honest, and that's where the transformation starts.

It's not going out to a store. It's starting to get curious about what's inside you.

@58:16 - Meg Trucano

So has been such an incredible conversation, Ellie. Thank you so much for joining us on Changeology. So I'd love for you to share with our audience how they can connect with you, how they can learn more about the services you offer, and how they can start to kind of absorb your wonderful wisdom.

@58:37 - Ellie Steinbrink

Yeah. I mean, there's so many ways. I'll say, though, I'm the most active on Instagram, so send me a message.

You know, start following me, send me a message, and just say, hey, I heard you on the Changeology podcast and loved it, or I have a question for you, you know, love to hear from you.

So follow me there. You mentioned so graciously that I have a podcast, so go check out the Visibility Shift podcast wherever you listen, and...