Stop Letting Money Be the Excuse (with Budget Besties)

One of the most common things I hear from women who are standing at the edge of a big change — leaving a job, starting a business, reevaluating their life — is some version of: I'd love to, but I can't afford it. 

And I understand why it feels true. But here's what I've come to believe after years of coaching women through major transitions: most of the time, "I can't afford it" isn't a fact. It's a story. And the fastest way to find out which one it is? Put your numbers on paper.

That's exactly what my guests today specialize in. Shana and Vanessa are the Budget Besties — two best friends who watched too many capable, hardworking women experience shame and paralysis around money and decided to do something about it. Their system helps women build budgets that actually fit their real lives: one that funds the date night and the debt payoff, the yoga certification and the savings account. They call it being bougie on a budget, and it works.

If you've ever told yourself you're bad with money, avoided opening your bank app, or quietly handed the financial reins to someone else because it feels like too much — this conversation is going to feel like a relief. Because the truth is, you were probably never taught how to do this. And you can't be ashamed of something nobody showed you how to do.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why "I can't afford it" is almost always a disorganization problem, not an income problem — and how putting five simple numbers on paper changes everything
• The psychology behind why capable women avoid looking at their money, and how that avoidance keeps them stuck in every other area of their lives too
• Why spending freely on your kids but hitting a hard stop at spending on yourself isn't a budgeting issue — it's a mindset issue, and what to do about it
• How building a budget system that runs automatically becomes an identity shift — and why women start trusting themselves differently once the math is visible
• How to build a "storm mode" savings strategy when a big life change is on the horizon, so that money stops being the reason the thing doesn't happen

Stop letting money be the reason you don't make the change. The math is more solvable than you think.

Connect with Shana & Vanessa: 

Website: budgetbesties.com 

Free Money Quiz: budgetbesties.com/quiz 

Budget System: budgetbesties.com/budget 

Private Coaching: budgetbesties.com/coaching 

Podcast: Financial Coaching for Women

Transcript

[00:00:00] Meg: Welcome to another episode of Change Ology. Today we're tackling one of the biggest barriers to making big, bold, badass change that I hear from the women that I work with, and that is some version of, well, I'd love to, but I can't afford that.

My guests today are Shana and Vanessa of Budget Besties, and they are two best friends. Who saw too many women experience shame and paralysis around money and budgeting, and they created a system to help women master their money. They love talking about the B word budget, and their approach to finances helps women build systems that support them and fit their own real lives.

They call it being bougie on a budget. And in today's conversation, we get pretty deep into the psychological barriers, those insidious shoulds that hold brilliant women back from making the changes that they want to make in their lives, whether that's in relationship to their money, or making a big, bold, badass life change.

So I hope you enjoyed today's episode with the budget besties

Welcome to Change Shana and Vanessa. I'm so glad you're both here today. 

[00:01:14] Shana & Vanessa: Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here to talk about the Be Bird.

[00:01:17] Meg: Yeah. Budget. You two have been friends since your oldest kids were four, right?

yep. And you, you both went through a Dave Ramsey journey. You both had careers, both paused your careers, and eventually you built a business budget besties specifically around women who feel stuck, ashamed, or kind of paralyzed around money.

So I'd love to hear from you kind of the advent of, of budget besties.

[00:01:48] Shana & Vanessa: Yeah. Well I feel like there was a little bit of a cliffhanger. Our boys are now 17 in case

anybody was wondering. No, I'm just kidding. But yeah, it's been a minute, but you know. It's fine. yeah. We found out that there's a big gap. Mm-hmm. We were teaching Dave Ramsey's fpu financial Peace University. It kind of assumes that everybody knows how to budget and nobody really does. That's a, that's just, we were not taught how to budget. So, we figured that out and we just really went to dive in deep to that. And the, the, the second part of that, which you mentioned is there's a lot of shame. There's a lot of financial bro nonsense out there. Love them, love them all. there was not really a soft light, not heavy, no shame, no judgment, conversation about money and budgeting. And we really wanted. To be able to provide that. And so that's kind of what we're up to. Yeah. We also saw that people didn't wanna live on Rice and Beans or be Gazelle tens for 10 years of their life and miss, you know, their 

kids being home and being able to go on vacation, break them spring break. Yeah, yeah. You know, and just do enjoy these special moments with them. And they wanted to be able to have date night with their spouse, but also pay off debt. And so there was a lot of things that they wanted to do. You know, in some plans out there, you're not really supposed to or shouldn't do any of these things, and there's a lot of shame around it.

And so we built a budget. Our thing is we want you to be bougie on a budget, right? And that means something different for everyone. And so we want you to build a budget that you love that brings you joy, that you're excited about, that you know is funding your life and, and is achieving your goals. And so that way you want to do this thing called budgeting.

It's not the B word anymore, and you can do both. We found out, and we've done it for years with our clients, you can pay off debt and you can go on date night, you can pay off debt and have Christmas and so on and so forth.

[00:03:24] Meg: Well, that is exactly what we need, I think. I spent a little time in the money coaching world and I kept noticing the same few patterns popping up with people. And I'm curious from your perspective, is there a common pattern that keeps surfacing in terms of women? You've worked with, that kind of speaks to this paralysis that you keep talking about.

Like, people who come into work with you, they use the word, you know, I feel paralyzed with, with what I, with what I know. I, I feel like I can't make any progress. So can you talk to us a little bit about the patterns that you see in working with your clients?

[00:04:05] Shana & Vanessa: Well, I think that the paralyzed, that you're talking about is one of them. They come and, you know, we love Dave. We're not, we're not anti. At all. But women come to us straight from him because they feel paralyzed, they feel ashamed. They feel like, well, I'm, I can't, I'm not allowed to do anything. I don't know what to do.

I've been trying this, but it's not working well. Yeah, it's not working because you can't white knuckle yourself, your yourself, through life, and nobody wants to do that. Mm-hmm. When Dave was. 20 with newborns or whatever, 25 or whatever he was. Yeah. All of us could white knuckle a little bit more back then.

Now, you know, our kids wanna do stuff, we wanna do stuff. I've been, you know, and so when you're a little older, it might be a little harder to do that. And anyway, so people come to us a little paralyzed from that. They think they're bad with money. They think they don't, they don't know what they're doing.

Mm-hmm. And really it's just because, it's literally just because they've never been shown a really simple. Easy way, which is what we specialize in to budget. That makes sense. And they'll say all the time, it finally clicks because everyone out there is either telling you. These shameful things. Like you're not allowed to go in a restaurant unless you're working there.

Or they are assuming you already know and they're trying to get you to invest in real estate. And you're like, Hey, I am trying to figure out how much I should spend on groceries. Hello. You know, so that's where, that's hopefully where we come in. We also see that things are different now. Like there's a lot more going on.

We have a lot more bills. You know, our kids are involved in a lot more things and there's a lot more debt payments, you know, there's just. If you look at someone's budget today, even just a regular conservative budget, and we've seen 'em all compared to, you know, 10 years ago, even 15 years ago, and, you know, when Dave started doing this, it is very different.

But I feel like there's the vocabulary in this, this industry hasn't changed, right? And so we really wanna change the narrative on that and go, no, you can do. A lot of different things, but we just want you to be excited about what you're doing. And you know, one of the questions that we get asked a lot is, what is the first thing you have people cut in your budget?

And we said, we don't, that's not what we do. You know, we want you to want to do this and to be excited about it. And so when you come to us and say you feel paralyzed, you, you don't know what you're doing, there's all this shame on it. And like Shana. That they've never been taught. So you can't be ashamed about something that you never told the proper way how to do.

That's not fair to you. Yeah. Right. And then another thing, Meg, that they do is they think they have an overspending problem or a spending problem, and they don't. They, they actually just are disorganized because like Vanessa's saying, we live in a modern world there, things are different now than they used to be.

Your bank account has about 11 billion transactions going on in it, and you don't really know what's going on because you have, instead of just having the mortgage and a light bill as they, as you used to call it, right. you have that and Netflix and your gym and this and that and the other. And then all, all of this stuff is just happening, in, in your bank account.

Mm-hmm. So it's very hard to understand what you can spend and when we actually go put it in. Put the numbers in for people. They're not overspending, they just don't really know what's going on. They don't know how much they can spend, which sometimes could lead to a little binge here and there 'cause you're so frustrated or stressed out or whatever.

But otherwise it's just a lack of organization. Yeah. And we've gotta use these modern tools, to help us do that and help us make it easy for ourselves. Right. Yeah. So they'll just end up avoiding it.

[00:07:17] Meg: Oh yeah, I remember that. I saw that pattern a lot. Where, you, you, you get into this psychological cycle right of, of being really, quote unquote good and virtuous. And, you know, cutting corners and eating rice and beans as you said. And then you get, you get frustrated and, and you kind of have this whiplash moment of like, well, I haven't spent anything for, you know, three weeks I deserve this, 

or, or whatever. actually I found that that is, that is, that happens sometimes. But a pattern that I've noticed a little more frequently, and I'm curious if you guys have noticed this pattern as well, is. That sometimes people say things like, oh, you know, I, no, I just, I can't afford it. I can't afford it. And it, it becomes this like psychological barrier towards making progress, right?

So whether that's, you know, I. Going on the trip with their kids or, or, investing in a, a class that they wanna take at the local art center. Something like that. They have this perspective that, oh no, I can't afford it. And you two have a very interesting perspective, kind of the mathematics side of this and the, the psychological side of it.

So I was wondering if you could help the listener, Understand a little bit about the mathematical side of budgeting and then the psychological side of budgeting.

[00:08:41] Shana & Vanessa: Well, when, you know, when people come to us and they say, I can't afford it, they don't actually know that

they they really, they've never put their numbers on paper. And so, you know, when Shana was talking about they have one account and that account does nothing but. Everything right. It does nothing for them really, but it does everything in their bank account.

So it's paying all the bills. It's paying for their travel, it's paying for medical bills, it's buying gas and groceries. It's taking their, their, their them and their spouse out. For date nights, it's doing all this stuff, but at the end of the day, they have no idea what's happening with their money because it's a black hole of transactions and there's no way to account for all of it.

So, you know, we like to say, let's take all the, the drama out of it and let's just look at the data. Let's just look at the numbers and when you can do that, when you can put your numbers on paper in five simple columns. We like to do income, your debt payments, your bills, your spending, and your savings.

If you can look at that. normally normally like a major part of this, it's not usually an income problem, it's usually a disorganization problem 'cause you did not know where all your money is going and most of the time people have money left over, but they didn't know that. Well, yeah, and I, I'll say like the math is, is math. Most people don't know their math. Like Vanessa was saying, doesn't I? Yeah. Like it's just math. And so when we put it on paper, that's really gonna help you make some decisions and really get clarity. But the psychological thing, I'll, for example, we had a, we had a client early on who paid off her van, which was named Havana.

I really,

I always will remember that. I love that she paid off her van and she wanted to get to your point, like a yoga certification. And her immediate thing was, well, maybe next year I'll be able to save up for it. And I was. I was. like, what are you talking about? Look at your budget. You have, you know, whatever, $1,500 discretionary each month because you've done this work.

'cause you got on a budget. 'cause you paid off your, any debt that you had and your, you know, she was specifically saving for the things that were important. They had a very bougie grocery budget, I'll tell you that because they're very crunchy, which is fine. Love that. So she had all of her numbers. She actually knew what they were.

But the, to your point, the psychological, she was so used to not to be just having to say no. Or thinking that she had to say no, that she automatically went there. And I said, absolutely, you can do this right now. And, and so there is some of that. You have to, as you're budgeting, as you're paying off debt, if that's a thing that you do, but also as you're like. we can talk about how we want you to separate your spending and it, and that will help you. You'll be, you'll become like a new person because now you know you have money to spend, you know how much, and it really changes and kind of heals some of these patterns or baggage that you've had. Mm-hmm.

Stories that you're telling in yourself because you can look in your spending and we, we require all of our clients to have a spending account just for them and say, oh, I have money and you, you, so you can't keep. Lying to yourself or tell repeating these patterns because evidence is right in front of you, which does eventually help you.

Mm-hmm. To heal a lot of that, psychological, but really, truly, it's just math. And most people just don't know their math. Yeah. It's like they always had money, but they couldn't believe it because it was never. They can never see it. They never put it on paper and they didn't, they did not believe that they had money to spend on themselves and also pay bills and also buy gas and groceries, and also by their husband a present, right?

So when you can show them, this is for you. This is for gas and groceries, this is for dining out and you know, going out to eat or date nights or whatever. This is for all your bills. This is for saving. When you can show them that, and you can automatically set it up to happen for them, which is something that we'll, we'll talk about in a little bit too. It's all done for them, right? Mm-hmm. So when you set the whole thing up for them to be successful, then they step into, like Shana said, this person who has money and they have to learn to be okay and like this new identity of the person who has money to spend all the time.

[00:12:24] Meg: Mm. Mm-hmm. So you talked a little bit about identity, which is my favorite thing to talk about, because I think it gets at the real crux of, of what we're both working on from different perspectives, right? So I think you all are, are working with women about, you know. Putting data to their, their feelings, right?

Like, I feel like I don't have money to spend. Well, actually, yeah, take a look at the numbers you do. It's a math problem. You, you can know this. It's a knowable thing, right? And then when, when I work with people who are making big transitions, significant life transitions, they, they have feelings also that, you know, money is the problem.

Money is the reason that I can't get what. Where I want to go or is, is keeping me here in this life that I don't want anymore. So I'm curious just to kind of skip around a little bit here.I'm curious what the most common sort of money belief that comes up in kind of capable, ambitious women that keeps them stuck.

Is there a, is there a money mindset that you kind of wish women could just sort of snap outta.

[00:13:39] Shana & Vanessa: Well, I think the most common one is avoiding it. They just avoid it altogether. And so whether that means they're letting their spouse take the reins and hoping for the best, or they are putting stuff on a credit card, or they're just consistently telling themselves no, what, what, whatever version, like whatever the, the mm-hmm.

Outcome of that is. Most of the, I think the, the biggest pattern is they simply avoid it and they, like you said, they avoid the data and that allows you. To keep in the cycle. Mm-hmm. You don't have to actually tackle anything. You don't actually have to do anything. If you can tell yourself that story and so, and just ignore it.

Mm-hmm. And, and then, and then continue to create problems for future you, then eventually, hopefully you'll, you'll tackle someday, but not, not today. That I think that's like one of the biggest ones that we see. Yeah. And I think another one is that I'm bad with money. If that's what they come to us and say, well, I'm bad with money.

And I'm like, well, why are you bad with money? Right. So we'll walk through this whole thing. Tell me the how as well, right? And let, let's talk about how you're doing this. And then really, it's just again, comes down to, well, you were never taught so. Yet, you can say you're bad with money, but you're not.

You're just doing the best you can. And a lot of women come to us who are, you know, huge big involvement in their church. Their wonderful wives, wonderful mothers, right? They're, high up in their work and their career, and then they feel shame that they don't know how to do finances. Already And they say, I should, I should know how to do this.

Well, sure you can say that, but were you ever taught properly? And if the answer to that is no, then no, you shouldn't know how because we, that's just like saying, well, I should be a psychologist. Well, no, or I should be a good, that's probably not gonna happen for me. I was never taught how to do that.

Right. And so I just think they just need to take that shame off of them and allow themselves the time and the investment in themselves to learn how to do it properly and take all the drama, all that. Pass like PTSD or whatever they're dealing with with money. 'cause everybody comes with money baggage.

And if they can remove all that from themselves and just start fresh, clean slate. Learn how to do it the right way and also know that it doesn't have to be that complicated. Yeah. Because right now in this tracking era that we're in, everybody is selling a budget, but it's, it's just a tracking mechanism.

All these apps, they're just tracking every single transaction. That's not a budget that is past tense. What we wanna do is create a budget that tells your money where to go so you know exactly what's happening and you have a plan.

[00:15:54] Meg: I wanna pull something out that you, you said, yes to all of that, and, and that is. Such a beautiful service that you provide to women is to, to help them do that, to, to build that concrete skill of being able to take something that's like, that just feels so big and make it simple and make it approachable.

so I'm huge kudos to you guys because I think this is, this is really excellent work that you're doing. But going back to something that you mentioned, and something that happens in my world as well. I will get an opportunity to speak with a woman and, and she, she'll be like, yeah, oh, I absolutely wanna do this coaching, or I wanna do this yoga class, as you said before, I wanna maybe invest in, working with budget best days, whatever it is.

And they are all about spending their money on the kids.

[00:16:50] Shana & Vanessa: I knew you were gonna say the

[00:16:51] Meg: Kids, the house, the, you know, anything that's not themselves. Right? And it that there just seems to be a huge gulf for a lot of women, not all, but a lot of women for investing in themselves. Right. Have you seen this pattern show 

[00:17:09] Shana & Vanessa: I've been this pattern, I've been that pattern. I remember. We moved from Alaska. Okay. Listen, I had my first baby went right to Alaska, gained a little bit of weight. Okay. Okay. Okay. Anyway, we moved to Florida and everybody's wearing no clothes at all. Okay. You know, so I was like, oh, I need to get my life together.

everything is hot. That's why we're not wearing any clothes 'cause it's hot and it's not comfortable to be overweight. Long story, sorry, my husband. I went, I was going to the gym. It was actually when Vanessa and I, met and they were having a body challenge is what they call it, but it's like a, you know, a month group fitness, three month Yeah.

Group fitness. And they'll take your measurements and whatever. And I was like, what was it, a hundred bucks? It, was it a hundred bucks? I think it was a hundred bucks a month. Okay. Whatever. I was like. I kind of wanna do this, but it's too expensive. And he's like, what are you talking about? Do it. He's like, please do it. Not in a mean way, but he is like, because of what you just said, like we're doing all this other things. Why would I say, and I assumed he was gonna say no, because why would we spend a hundred dollars and obvious, obviously it was a wonderful investment and it was. It was the eye-opener for me. I was like, oh. Oh, so this made me better, which helps everybody else as well. But also I'm allowed to do stuff for me. Mm-hmm. What, and so, so I totally, we totally get it with women that feel that, and, and I was gonna say that before you even mentioned it. That's where every, if you look at a woman's budget, where is all the money going?

The kids, the house, the, the clothes for the, everybody else. Literally

everyone else. And, and I think part of why is there is a little bit of fear. Fear of failure. Like I can invest in them because. No matter what, I'll forgive them. Like I might pay for that. We're gonna, we're gonna pay for our kids to go to travel volleyball.

If they lose, we're still gonna love them. But me, if I pay for that coaching, if I do that and I don't, you know, maybe there's a little bit of fear of failure there and I'm gonna judge myself versus everyone else I'm willing to forgive and

love and mm-hmm. And allow them to succeed or not. there's probably part of that, and again, it really is not knowing your numbers because, and, and we also want women to set budgets for those things.

On purpose, like the kids, the house, the husband, the, the golf that he's doing, whatever it is. And for yourself. Mm-hmm.

It glam up self-care, whatever's important to you. your, you know, your education, put it in the budget. All of it can be in the budget and we can all have a little bit, we can work with whatever's important to you, but it can be in the budget.

Yeah. We definitely feel or see the guilt, right. That comes with it. And what we tell them is. You are just as important. You work really hard for your money, whether you're a stay-at-home mom or you're in a big corporate job, you work really hard for the money that you have, and you should be able to spend a little bit on yourself because when mom is happy. Everyone's happy. Okay. Yeah. So when mom can invest in herself and get her headspace right, feel, just feel good. You know, your body is a temple that can mean so many different things in so many different ways in how you can really invest in yourself and, and be healthy for yourself. And when you can do that, you show up differently.

Yeah. And I just think that there's something to that accountability. You know, I have, I had a lady come to my house and gut my closet with me. My closet was organized, but I needed somebody to come and just change it for me and regat it. And I knew that if I wasn't gonna have her there with me, it wasn't gonna happen.

I needed somebody to create that time and space for me to be there with her, completely tuned in and not distracted by anything else to get it done. And we just, we understand the value of coaching and we, in whatever capacity that looks. Like, and we've seen women who are like, okay, I got my health under control, now I'm doing my finances.

Or Hey, I got my finances under control and now I'm doing health, or now I'm gonna do investments, or now I'm gonna do, whatever that next thing, the yoga certification, whatever that looks like. If you can just start small and do one thing at a time, don't focus all of it at once. You'll make yourself crazy.

Either nobody has time for all that, but do it one small step at a time and you can see the progress, you know, domino effect that.

[00:20:45] Meg: I love that, and that dovetails so beautifully with, with my approach to change as well. And you know, I like to call them small acts of rebellion, right? They're just, they're tiny little intentional actions that you make toward any. Outcome that you wanna see. Right? And that is what moves the needle on change.

It's not some massive, you know, head to toe overhaul of your entire personality. It is very small, intentional actions. And it sounds like you are, you as a, as a service provider encourage women to. Approach that kind of change in that way as well. And I, I love that and I think personally, I think it's the most effective and most expedient way to get to whatever kind of outcome you want, whether it's financial independence or whether it is, you know, some other kind of major life transition.

So.

[00:21:39] Shana & Vanessa: Well, hold on, Meg, let me, let me dovetail on small acts of rebellion because I love that. Mm-hmm. I am gonna write that down and keep that in my brain. When have you read Ja if, I dunno if you've read James Clear book, about atomic havoc,

right? And he says, every action you take is a vote for the identity of who you wanna become.

Right? Which was what sounds like small acts of rebellion is. So we are not, we are not like, there's no ology in what we do. We're very like math nerds. However, what we know is when women do our system. They, they have a separate account for gas and groceries. They have a separate account for their personal spending. Right. And maybe a separate one for eating out whatever it is. And then their bills are over here. What naturally happens is it, it, the budget is happening for them. Mm-hmm. And all of a sudden they're very good at budgeting. The budget is happening automatically, and all of a sudden they're like, oh, I'm kind of good.

I have money. I, I'm the kind of person that has money. I'm, and then what also happens is they stop spending. Like maybe they were, we talked about the binging. Like she had a client, who was a Amazon B, that was her. Specialty. Right.and

she said. 

[00:22:40] Meg: a flavor.

[00:22:41] Shana & Vanessa: Yeah. Right, right. Really all of us are guilty. So, she said, I didn't binge, I waited till the next day.

'cause I knew I was gonna get more money in my spending account. And then I just waited till that day. And like all of these habits can heal and these mindsets and these shifts can heal naturally. It doesn't have to be this shameful, painful process. It's like as soon as you set the money up, we've just noticed. Like, we don't know how, we don't know why dopamine, science, allergy things. Mm-hmm. It just starts to work. And I think it's because of those small acts of rebellion that you talked about, these little votes for who I am. Like I can't, if I'm looking at my phone and it says, Shane is spending, and there's $200 in there, I can't be this kind of like upset with myself person because I have money and I didn't spend it all.

And it's amazing. And it, and it goes for every category of your budget, which yeah, everything just starts to work and then you're like, oh. I'm still good at budgeting. Yeah, and you know, our big thing is we want you to be able to say yes, you building a budget isn't about it being restrictive. It's not about saying no, and you can't do this, you can't do that, especially when you, you speak to your kids, you want it to be very positive conversation. But it's about saying yes to what matters and what you're excited about. That $200 that you gave yourself as a budget, those are the guardrails that you decided based on your budget and what it will allow. If your budget says it could be 300, 500. We have a couple clients. They're each husband and wife.

They each have a thousand dollars a month. For themselves go crazy that they have a good time and that is their spending money. That is not gas and groceries, that's not going out to eat. That is their personal money that they get to spend a month and great, like we're excited for them, but they knew that they needed that to be able to stay within the guardrails that they created so that way their entire budget works.

Right And it's all working for them in the background automatically, because this is what they, what they said that they were gonna stay within.

[00:24:25] Meg: I love that. And bringing it back to James Clear and Atomic Habits is like, Ugh, you're speaking my love language here. And it's, it's the same thing in my work, right? You have. People who are making these, you know, small acts of rebellion, these tiny, tiny, intentional votes for the kind of person they want to be.

And all of a sudden you start to build what in psychology we call, you know, self-efficacy. You do what you say you're going to do.

[00:24:50] Shana & Vanessa: Mm, 

[00:24:50] Meg: That is what builds confidence and self-trust. And I'm sure you've seen this same pattern, I'm sure of it.

[00:24:56] Shana & Vanessa: Yeah, absolutely. The self-trust, I think that is exactly. Mm-hmm. What. You're lack what the women are lacking. They're not trusting themselves. And, and honestly, that's why our system works so well, because it doesn't rely on you. Mm-hmm. Or your willpower. And,

you know, we did that out of, we're like efficiency nerds.

Like we wanna make things as efficient, easy as possible, but the, and so that's why we came up with the system where the money moves automatically and you don't actually have to go in and do anything. and so we did that for efficiency's sake. But what you, what you're talking about is. I put, I, I stuck to my budget.

Mm-hmm. But I didn't really have a choice not to, I mean, you can go in and really be a bad girl if you really, really try. But it's just, it doesn't, it takes work and effort to do that,

to do, to be a bad girl versus it takes almost no effort to be a good girl. Which again, like you said, it builds that efficacy, it builds that trust with myself.

And then that has. Instead of diminishing, it has like exponential returns, right? Mm-hmm. So now we'll see a woman who wanted her spending budget to be a thousand, and she's like, nah, I want 500. Please put some money in this other savings bucket. This. And we're like, who are you? I love this. What's happening?

It's so good. But, but it's like a, a journey of self-trust. And the more that you get confident and believe that you're this person that can do it, the, the more cool things that you end up doing with your money because you now know that you can.

[00:26:14] Meg: Yeah, I love that. And another James Clear kind of tie in there too about, you know, making the thing that you. Want to learn to become habitual. You know, the habits you wanna build, making that easy

and 

[00:26:29] Shana & Vanessa: Absolutely. 

[00:26:30] Meg: and then making the thing that you don't wanna do, kind of tough and kind of hard to go in and mess with your budget to, to kind of screw yourself over, basically.

[00:26:39] Shana & Vanessa: Well, and that's what we tell people. Like, look, we love you, but the more you're gonna touch it, the more we're gonna mess it up. And so the less manual we can make your budget. And so, okay, let's go back. You can put words on numbers on a, on a paper and call it a budget. Okay? But what do you do then?

What? Then people just close their book and then they go about their day like, yeah, I think I'm gonna stick to that. I don't really know how. Right. So our system is, you write it on, you write it down, and then you make these separate accounts and put the money in it, fund it, fund those accounts, so that way you know that it's all separate and organized. And then you get to use your debit cards and go spend money throughout the month, and you know that you're staying within budget because you put the amount of money in that account that you wanna spend. Yeah. My husband gets paid every Wednesday, Thursday morning at midnight. All of my accounts get funded.

I didn't do anything. I set the system up to help me. Be successful ahead of time. In the right mindset when I was a good girl, like Janna said. Right. And then I just have to spend money. If my kids know that they're the gas or the a grocery account has 20 bucks on Wednesday night, don't ask me to go to the store and buy you anything. You can buy up to $20 worth of stuff. We will get you one piece of bread. That's it. You're welcome. That's all you get. Well. Yeah, don't ask me for fancy orange juice. Don't ask me for all the things. Thursday morning. Everybody knows that their accountants get replenished. You can ask me then, and then to the point, like where he says to put the beer behind the, whatever, the healthy foods or to unplug the TV so that you, it's harder to watch tv. What we were talking about is if you wanna mess this up, you literally have to go in and say, oh, I'm like, for example, well, we might, you might have a savings bucket for your daughter. For her wedding, you have to go literally look at the account that says Melanie's wedding, steal money from it to put it in your spending or wherever. And like, that's a whole process. So you know, you're making it harder for you to be a bad girl, which is not the right verbiage. We've gotta come up with that. But I think it's funny, bad girl, bad girl. and so that, that re that, friction is there mm-hmm. To help you from not from doing the bad thing.

And it makes, and it's already doing the, the easy, the good thing. Automatically. So that is what the beauty of it all mm-hmm. Is, and then of course with our, with our one-on-one clients, so that's just the budget system all by itself with our one-on-one clients. We are talking through all of this and helping you realize how you're, how wonderful you're doing, and all the breakthroughs you're having and, and, and you know, what, what your spouse and you need to, you know, what you might wanna talk about and all that.

Like, we're helping that, but really the system kind of does a lot of this stuff for you automatically. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:58] Meg: I love that. And you know, again, when you're setting up systems, just those wins are so important and I love to hear you say that you're helping. Helping your clients see the wins and point out like, oh, you have to, you have $200 in your account like six weeks ago, that was not possible for you, or you didn't have that experience.

Right.

and I think that's a, a really important component in building self-advocacy too, is being able to look back and say like, okay, look at the progress that I've made over the last, however, however long it is.

[00:29:31] Shana & Vanessa: Well, yeah, I mean, we have people who are buying our, so we have, you know, we have two things. We have our DIY debt, really our goodness, our DIY budget system, our simplified budget system, which is the DIY version of you are. You just need the information. You're gonna take it and run with it and be successful.

They're paying off around 50 to $60,000 of debt in a year. That they didn't even know they had. And then we have our one-on-one coaching clients who are paying off around that amount, that amount or saving, depending on what journey you're on. Not everyone wants to pay off debt, so they wanna be saving around 50 to 60 and six months with us working on it and really diving deep into what they have going on.

both journeys are awesome. The DIY version, the accountability version where you need the, the coaching, it's all helping you be successful and turning you into the person that you want to become. Right. It just depends on which. Avenue, you need to be the most successful for yourself.

[00:30:20] Meg: I love that. I love that. So let's bring it into talking a little bit about. Change. And as, as you know, I work with clients who are really navigating some kind of significant life change. And again, a lot of times I hear some version of like, oh, but I couldn't afford to do that. I love to use the example of someone who's worked in corporate for a really long time, but has always secretly wanted to be.

An artist or something that traditionally doesn't make a whole lot of money, right? And they think, oh, I don't have, I don't have the money to do that. and they allow that to be one of probably several reasons that they are not pursuing that. Right. But for someone who is on the cusp of another kind of big change, potentially leaving a job, starting a new business, maybe reevaluating their lifestyle, reevaluating a relationship, get a lot of like, you know.

Am I going to be staying with this person for the rest of of my life? Is this going to relationship going to be holding me through the next couple of years? So what is the first thing that you would want someone who is kind of on the that knife s edge of looking into a big change? What do you want them to know about their money and what they need to do to financially prepare for that?

[00:31:46] Shana & Vanessa: Life is stressful enough, your money shouldn't add to it. Okay? That is, is what I think about. If you are thinking about these changes, figure out the math so that that's no longer part of your decision making factor or, or decision making. Let the math be the math and then you make decision, right? So we want you to, we would want you to know your numbers.

What is your regular budget right now? What do, what do I have right now? So if I'm starting a business, if I, if I need to start setting aside to move, how much can I afford? How long will that take? Like let the math be math. It's not, this is not a psychological warfare item. This is data. Right. And on the flip side, you know, lots of times with our clients, unfortunately, we'll have to make mock budgets that either include a, a lot, a job loss, they are a budget that includes maybe you're on your own financially now and we've gotta see what, what, what that looks like for you.

Mm-hmm. we might do one where you're gonna get a promotion, where you're going to, go on maternity leave and, and you have a business and you're not gonna like, whatever it is. We've made 'em all. Yeah. We have literally made 'em all make, look at the numbers, figure it out, and then you either have a problem to solve.

Okay, if I say $5,000, I'll, I'm good to go. That as soon as I get there, I'm done. This is what I'm doing it. Or you can look at it and say. I can do it right now, or you can look at it and say, unless something else changes. This is, this is not, I'm gonna have to go into credit card debt or whatever, but just let the math be the math facts, data, and then let your, let the other stuff be the stuff that's that you have to connate over. Yeah. We really don't want finances to be the reason the thing does or does not happen. Right. We want it to be. a, a a tool for you to use for good. And, while we make these mock, these mock budgets, it allows you to see, like, again, takes the drama out of it and it just becomes, you know, data for you to say, okay, this is all it's gonna take for me to make sure that I'm successful in this and I can do X, Y, and Z and then you can do the thing that you wanna do.

We have a lot of people that come to us. In times of, times of change like this because they wanna make sure they're being good stewards of their money and making sure that they're planning properly. And we call it store mode, right? So you may not, so maybe let's just say you're, in this zone right now where you wanna pay off a lot of debt because you want more wiggle, boom in your budget. Okay, well let's then, let's say a change happens, big financial change, and you wanna make sure that you have the finances to be able to cover whatever's going on. you wanna make sure that you can, you can set aside the money to, to make this happen, right? So we talk about unexpected expenses if you are in storm mode. And you are, that means you're not paying off extra debt right now. You are saving for the thing that needs to happen. So whether it's a move, whether it's a career change, whether it's maternity leave, whatever that looks like, that means you're stopping doing the thing that you're currently doing. So if you're, if you're putting a thousand dollars on debt extra a month, we're not doing that right now.

That's okay. You're still making process. Right. So we're gonna take that money and put it aside into a savings bucket. And we're say, this is for the maternity leave, this is for the job change, this is for the big move, or whatever that looks like, and name that account ex exactly what it's for. So that way you don't sadly dip into it and steal from it every now and then.

Mm-hmm. You want to make sure you have that money set aside for that thing so you can feel good. So when it comes, when it comes time for that, you can confidently transfer the money and pay for whatever it is that you need to pay for.

[00:34:52] Meg: Mm. I love that bringing, there's like something psychologically very, empowering about taking something that is unknown and just sort of a weight on you and bringing it into the land of data and facts and being able to define its edges, right? Because when you know the scope and the. The content of your problem, you can then begin to take steps to solve it.

[00:35:16] Shana & Vanessa: Right. And, and again, that is a lot of times people live in that unknown on purpose because they're afraid to make a decision. They don't wanna really, move forward. Yeah. and so if you're ready, this is when you look at the, if you really want to, that's when you look at the math as you pointed out.

It gives it, it grounds it. It's not this ethereal thing or this what if, what if not? It is data facts that don't lie and it gives you a problem to solve if you're just letting it rec roll around in your brain. maybe I can, maybe I can't. Instead you put it on paper and you say, okay. I, if I get a part-time job for two months, this, this can happen.

Or what? I, it really depends on what the situation is. Or, you know, I can do this starting in August, I can't do it before then. Right. There's no way. But if in August I just have to persevere till August and then I've got, it gives you a, you a, a, a path away, a a, you know, a math problem to solve. Mm-hmm.

Which you can actually do. You can't solve this. What if. Like mind bubble that you're, that you're letting yourself, you know, stay stuck in. Mm-hmm. But you can solve something on paper for sure. We had a lady, she had a free call with us and she said, I. There was a situation that was happening and she said, but I can't do that because I have this much debt. And so I said, well, you know, how much is it? And she needed $6,000 and she worked in the like veterinary industry. So, okay, great. That means you can be a pet sitter. People are gonna trust you with their pets. Right. You can. She even said she'd done some training so she could do training. She can pick up more shifts as a veterinary, as as a vet tech. There was a couple other things that we brainstormed and I said, you need to make $6,000. That's it. And that that's all you have to do. Find a second job or a third job. Make it in this short amount of time and then you're done. And she said, oh my gosh, I've never. Thought of it that way. I always thought of, I needed a second job forever, right?

She just thought it was gonna be never ending. And I said, no, you get a second job for $6,000 and then, and then be done and move on. And then that way you're getting all that money back in your pocket and then you can go on to do the thing that you wanna do without all this financial stress. So I think knowing that start and stop point allows you to, like Shayna said, see the light at the end of the tunnel and know that it's not a forever thing, it's just a right now thing.

[00:37:22] Meg: Oh, that's so freeing

to, to to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. That there is a way that you can. Exercise your agency to get to the goal that you want to get to. I love that. So I want to tie this up with a little bit of a bow. I have a feeling you're, you're going to push back on on this question a little bit.

but is there a minimum financial foundation you want someone to have?

[00:37:53] Shana & Vanessa: No,

I mean, your financial reality is your financial reality. so we just want you to know it. And then, you know, you might have goals. So sometimes, we'll, sometimes your budget might be a little more bougie than you currently can do. That's po. That's po potentially true. But you know, the thing is, like Vanessa said, we're not asking to cut anything.

We want you to look at it. And so sometimes, we'll, for example, I had this couple, they paid off, like Vanessa said, over $50,000 in debt in one year, like they did so great.and she came in, she's like, I found out that we're spending $2,000 on eating out a month. I don't, I, she said, I wanna throw up.

I was like, I wanna throw up for you too. Like, yeah, that's probably why you're in credit card debt. Like, we're just kind of being crazy. Right. So they decided they were gonna stop doing that. That's their decision though, because they, they were, wanted to get somewhere. We had another client that came in.

She said, I will do this, but I'm not giving up travel or eating out. And it's like, girl, done. You do, you boo. So it doesn't, and, and the other thing, sometimes Meg people are. They think they have so much money they don't need to budget. It's like, no, no, no. This is why you really wanna budget. 'cause you wanna make sure all of that great money, income that you're making is actually going to what you want it to.

You don't really wanna donate. To Chick-fil-A for every extra dollar that you have. Like, you probably wanna give yourself future use and travel or something. Mm-hmm. Anyway, so I don't think there's a minimum foundation. I think everybody needs to know their numbers. You know, everybody should be confident in what their money is doing with whatever foundation, whatever reality that they have. Yeah. I think they, making a lot of money is a, is a good point because like my neighbor gets DoorDash for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and. My conversation to myself was, I, just because you can afford something like that doesn't mean you should do it. Right? And like Shana said, is that something that if you want to do that and that is, you're excited to do that 'cause you're also able to take travel vacations and, you know, splurge on Christmas and splurge on your kids and invest, like if everything else in your budget is doing it is doing great, and you have the budget to spend all your money on DoorDash. Great. But if you're doing all of that and you're not able to do everything else that you want and hit all your goals, then have a conversation with yourself and decide what's important to you. Mm-hmm. Because you may have a ton of money. That's awesome. Those are the most fun budgets to make. We love building budgets with people who make a lot of money.

It's a lot of fun to show them how their money can serve them.

[00:40:08] Meg: Yeah, and, and I love, I love this concept of. Using money as a tool and, and that's something that I always came back to when I was doing some money coaching, is like, what do you want your money to do for you? That, that is the question, right? Do you want to travel? Do you want to, you know, fund political parties and, and candidates that.

Look like you and reflect your values. Do that with your money. You can if you have it right. So, I hear you and I'm sure that's very fun to play with, lots of money and all the, all the different creative ways that you can, all the different ways that you can make your money work for you. But I will say, this conversation about having.

You know, making a lot of money versus not making a lot of money, and that there's still a whole world of possibility within both situations. I found that the, the people who were quote unquote best at money, when I was working with people. On their money, were, were teachers. They made very little money by, by, especially by kind of DC Northern Virginia standards.

And they were incredible at managing their money and they still managed to go on, on their vacations and they still managed to invest and they still managed to save. They still had the psychological stuff about money and that's what we worked through. But, Yeah. So I, I love that you work with people who are anywhere along that kind of income spectrum.

That's, that's really, really good. Because we all need to be better at this, right? Like, we all need to learn this skill. So, yeah. I, in closing here, I thank you so much for your perspective and for sharing your experiences. For someone who is listening right now who again might be standing on the edge of, of a, a big change and using money as the reason to wait or to defer, so what is one thing you would want her to do this week for herself?

[00:42:14] Shana & Vanessa: I mean, if we're talking finances, we want you to put your numbers on paper, right? So look at everything and it, this isn't just your bills, right? It's, or it's fixed expenses or variable expenses. No, five simple things. Write down all of your income, all of your minimum debt payments. All of your monthly bills that you have, all the ways you spend money throughout the month and all the ways that you can, maybe you can't save money, but all the ways that you save money during the month and look at it and see what's working for you, what's not working, and if this change is coming, how can you make that happen and not allow finances to be the reason it doesn't.

[00:42:52] Meg: Love that response. Okay, so where can people find you and how can you help them?

[00:43:01] Shana & Vanessa: Oh, well, let us count the ways. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. We have a fun quiz that we think could be a good start. If you, if you're wondering where you stand, we have a free money quiz and it's super simple. So you can go to budget besties.com/quiz. We wanted to give a really first, like easy first step, right?

So it'll take you a couple minutes and then we can kind of from there tell you what, you know, what, what you should do next. And so that's a really easy. first step for people. Yeah. It's just gonna allow you to see what's really going on with your money. I think it's a, it's a great way to, to start that.

And then, you know, come on over to our podcast, financial Coaching for Women. We have a lot of great resources. We have over 500 episodes. You can really dive deep to figure out how, what your next step is and how to, how to fine tune your finances and how to do something different compared to what you've been doing all along.

It's maybe not working.

[00:43:50] Meg: Mm-hmm. Okay, wonderful. So, you mentioned earlier that you have a DIY kind of budget program, and you also offer one-on-one coaching. Is that. Right.

[00:44:02] Shana & Vanessa: Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. So we have our budget system. We didn't set out to make one that, we never planned that, but we ended up doing it because like we said, all of this financial bro words and all of these tracking and all of this busy work was in all the budgets that we saw. We're like, fine, let's make our own.

It's very simple. Mm-hmm. Very actually aesthetically pleasing, which we think is important. And and then we also, there's a course that goes along with it if you, if you need. Like literally money and budgeting 1 0 1. 'cause no one ever taught you we get that. So we gave it to you. so anyway, you can go to budget besties.com/budget and that's where you can find that.

Yeah. And then, you know, if you know you need that accountability and you love the idea of one-on-one, we have, our coaching, our private coaching, which is six months, and you can go to budget besties.com/coaching to book a free call and see if it's a good fit.

[00:44:47] Meg: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much to both of you for again, sharing your wisdom and your experience. And, for anyone listening, check out budget, besties. They know their stuff. And stop letting money be the reason that you don't make a big change. So again, thank you so much and to everyone listening, I'll see you in the next episode of.